Pride Crushed by Visiting Atlantic Privateers 61-29
It was an entertaining game for viewers with lots of scoring but when looked at from a development perspective where this is supposed to be the Rugby Canada academy team preparing players for higher levels, there are lots of questions to ask. Before asking those questions first kudos to the Pacific Pride for finally getting their streaming act together, this being the second match on their channel. Also kudos to the Atlantic Privateers for making the trip and getting their season off to a strong start.
Now the questions, the penalty count must have been 5 to 1 against the Pride, at least, a lot of those were at the breakdown where poor decision making and execution were evident. You have to play to the ref, but that level of indiscipline is not what you would expect from a national program academy. Tactical kicking, where was it? The modern game is based around contestable kicking, box kicks from the ruck, contestable kicks from the flyhalf, the key word being contestable. The kicking was aimless, just reactive to relieve pressure and giving possession to the other team. The maul defence was non existent, the decision to contest lineouts haphazard. I don’t think David Clark, who created the original Rugby Canada development program in the 90s, would be very pleased at the current level of play.
On the positive side, the Atlantic set piece work was strong, they mauled in several tries from 5 metre lineouts and controlled the scrum for most of the match. The players who were expected to stand out did, Joe Locke, Austin Creighton for Atlantic, Taine Clague for Pride. In the backs some player names got called out by the announcer on several occasions for line breaks, Jack McCarthy for Atlantic and Andrew Cooper for the Pride. The replacement front row for the Pride reversed the Atlantic dominance when they came on in the second half.
It’s the 3rd time this season the Pride have given up 50+ points in a loss, they’ve played 9 games, and won 1, against TWU. It might be time for a review.
The match can be viewed here, the half time score was 28-22 for Atlantic.
Pacific Pride vs Atlantic Privateers Preview and Prediction
The BC rugby competitions are shut down for Family Day weekend but there is one Premier level match tomorrow with the Atlantic Privateers flying in for a match against the Pacific Pride.
The Privateers are doing good work on the east coast trying to get as many high level matches as possible and they’re starting their season early with a trip to the west coast.
There are a number of Atlantic players who are on the current Pacific Pride roster, Justin Tasse, Nate Cameron, Evan Logan, Jamin Hodgkins. Hodgkins has signed with the Manly Marlins in Sydney, Australia so this likely is his last match in Victoria for a while.
There are a few Privateers who play for other Premier sides, Joe Locke from the Ravens, Merlin M’Cloud from UVic, Ethan McCarthy UBC, Nehemiah O’Neil for JBAA, Kyle Corrigan Burnaby, Nate Gallant and Keith Graham of the Lomas. Austin Creighton started with the Bays this season after several seasons with the Pride, he may be the only Canada capped XVs player in the match. Brandon Power at scrum half played for the Capilano in the 2023-24 season. Jack McCarthy played for the Bays in the 2023-24 season, he’s also capped for Canada in 7s. A few players have Dalhousie University roots Parker Bates the tighthead prop, Nigel Bannister second row, Luke Van Dam outside centre, Dylan Hickey second row and Jimmy Clarke the flyhalf (also Swilers Club, NFLD). Luke Van Dam is also the Bud Light rep on campus and rugby club president, interesting trivia on him, good man to know.
The Atlantic Privateers local club affiliations are listed below in their extended squad tour poster.
Pacific Pride v Atlantic Privateers @ 16:30
Referee: Shanda Assmus AR1: Justine Blatt-Janmaat AR2: Juan Pablo Rey
Venue: Westhills Stadium
The Pride won their last match in strong style against Trinity Western University, they haven’t yet won a Premier match however and were heavily outscored by the last touring team from Chicago.
The Privateers are a bit of an unknown at the beginning of their season but they have some quality players we do know about who are in mid-season form in BC. Joe Locke at #8 for the top team in the Premier, UBCOB Ravens, he is a player who deserves a closer look by national team scouts. Austin Creighton already a known factor at the national level. Merlin M’Cloud well regarded in the BC Premier. They have a solid front row and a strong set of loose forwards. We haven’t seen the Pride roster yet but just based on last week’s roster we might lean towards the visitors in those two areas.
In the backs the back three of Hodgkins, McCarthy, Graham are a proven quantity. Hodgkins will have something to prove before leaving the Pride and what better way than winning his last match as the opposition. I’ll give the nod to the visitors here as well. That leaves the halfbacks, centres and second row. The Pride have a strong set of young scrum halves with Luke Prest and Chris Rose, we don’t know the Atlantic halfback pairing, Jimmy Clarke did win second team honours at the University championships last year so it will be an interesting matchup. Hodgkins played #10 for most of the season for the Pride and we haven’t seen too much of Jean-Louis Desgouttes who started last week. In the second row, not much known about the players, Jaiden John has impressed at times for the Pride, another matchup to watch.
Overall the visitors seem to have a stronger roster in key areas, front row, loose forwards and back three. We’re undecided about the second row, centre and halfback match ups. The visitors get extra points for getting their roster out, showing better organization. The Pride are missing their head coach in Nairobi with the national 7s team, we don’t know who is running the side in his absence. We’ll update the Pride roster when it’s available. Prediction: Privateers, by +8.
Atlantic Privateers
1 Rudy Osborne
2 Theo Espagnol
3 Simroy John
4 Jacques Bonsant
5 Mason McDonald
6 Taine Clague
7 Evan Logan
8 Jack Part
9 Rogan Moir
10 Jean-Louis Desgouttes
11 Hudson Poppitt
12 Hudson Young
13 Andrew Cooper
14 Jute Norlin
15 Alan Berros
16 Porter Gook
17 Matteo Quinonez
18 Eric Rutledge
19 Jaiden John
20 Noah Kyneston
21 Chris Rose
22 Luke Prest
23 Ian Jones
Atlantic Privateers
Same guy currently getting dummied by Zee Germans in Nairobi is responsible for this mess too. Other than those out of the blue road wins from a year or so ago against Samoa (bankrupt) and Tonga (all the best lads are choosing Rugby League), this guy’s done nothing of value with the U20s either. 3 strikes, but still at the plate!!? So…Mark, can you ask chatgpt if Esterhuizen is the Afrikaans word for pretender?
I’ll give some more thought to this but initial thoughts is he’s doing 3 jobs, he deserves some slack. He gets a passing grade on last year’s U20 performance, exceeded expectations. The men’s 7s is a mess, Sean didn’t get the job done, doesn’t look like Christiaan will either, Sandro Fiorino is there as well. Not sure a coach change is going to fix the situation, deeper issues to look at. The Pacific Pride needs someone who can address issues from funding to recruiting, we all know Jamie was the guy, they got rid of him.
Having spoken to players in the 7s group, they don’t particularly understand his gameplan or thought process around the 7s. And his selections have been, to put it as politely as possible, terrible. Leaving proven guys at home for people that don’t even start on their BC Prem squads… I get the guy has three jobs but we need to have some standards somewhere.
Long past the time for a review, by Rugby Canada.
Both The Pride and Men’s 7s team are lead by the same “coach”
Time to put the South Africian on plane home.
What is it going to take, for RC to ACT ?
The Head Coach controls the program.
When that program fails. The coach is replaced.
The Pride train 6 times a week and still can’t beat
amateur teams that practise Tuesday and Thursday nights.
What a JOKE !!
HH Jono
Quality Players are the problem not the coaching. It’s still the same coach that coached the South African University that beat the UBC Men Premier team (top training ground for Canada prospect) a few years back.
Don’t blame the coaching, blame the quality of players that Canada is offering up and the quality of the rugby environment in Canada. See below:
1. Limit imports so “Johnny Canuck” can play in a weak league and feel great in a small pond until he steps into the big league on the international stage. An absolutely numb nuts decision, end this.
2. Quality Canadian players do not train and play for the “love of the game” they feel it is better to get paid a couple hundred bucks a game (certain clubs) and beat up on other mediocre Canadian players, you only have to be slightly better and you are considered great player. It is Delusional once they step into the big league.
3. Just because you call yourself the “Premier League” it does not mean you are a “Premier League”
4 The joke is we have too many people looking at the past and not looking to the future as to what has to be done to grow the game of rugby. The environment has changed drastically. Back then you did not need to train six day a week and do weight training to put Canada on the map, you can ask many of Canada’s past player in the 70s, 80s and 90s if they trained like that, most of them did not.
5. BCRU is a temporary stop for many of the executives.
6. You can train 7 days a week all you want but you have got to have some “international level” of talent, drive and character to succeed.
7. I have noticed the impact that any team in the BCRU league that has some quality imports playing for them. Its light night and day and when “Johnny Canuck” plays along side of them, they learn and improve much faster in a strong, more talented and higher level of play.
8. Clubs have got to develop the skills and talent of a players but not only in the game but the in the character of player. The Character of the individual is much more important than the talent of the individual.
No it is not the coaching that is failing, it is the entire system, that need a total rethink.
If you speak to a bunch of former Pride players, and current 7s players, you will hear they complain about his coaching.
Pride players have left the program due to not enjoying the environment he created and not feeling like they’ve learned anything.
To not blame the coaching at all for a development academy and a 7s team is a crazy way to think…
The entire system needs a rework yes but unfortunately the guy at the helm of the Pride has had his opportunities and needs to be replaced.
Ask a lot of the former Pride players who chose to leave, and many of the current 7s players, their opinion on the environment and gameplan of the coach and I’m sure you’ll see that the coaching is a big part of the problem. When better players leave the Pride because they don’t feel they’re getting better, and they aren’t enjoying their time in the program partly due to coaching, you’re forced to replace them with worse athletes/second choice.
To say the coaching isn’t the problem when he has the pick of the litter for the development academy and can barely manage a win against amateur teams in the top league, is a crazy take. It’s not like the Prem has a bunch of Elite Athletes running around that he has to go up against week in and week out. He’s had his opportunity and it hasn’t worked, tough on him to do 3 different jobs sure, but time to move on.
His selections for SVNS2 were atrocious. Leaving a player like Josiah Morra at home and bringing in some guys that don’t even start half the time for their club in the Prem is inexplicable.
We didn’t have anywhere near our best players selected.
All points noted. Please also review how the Pride has done in the last few years, not just one year How many of the past Pride have gone onto Canada’s 15 and 7 program and the MLR, check it out? Current Pride rebuilding, naturally progression, due to graduating players. Also check out he BC Club team he coached and how they did, my understanding is he took them to the Roundfell final after a short time of being there.
Current 7s coach stepped in as far as I am aware and has only been coaching them for a short time.
Past Pride player who choose to leave, please man up here and voice your issues and concerns, this is a open forum here, no retributions, so stand up and be counted, don’t let others speak on your behalf. Be objective, give examples, provide measurable comments, don’t just say bad coaching, not getting better etc. Provide your background, clubs etc to provide a meaningful discussion.
Also “we didn’t have anywhere near our best player selected”. Please provide the coach with your selection of who you feel our best player are and why?
To the best player’s who are listed, please respond if you would even attend camp and why you should be selected. Representing Canada is not a great career move, low pay, and based on the above comments “training 6 days a week’ does not give you a lot of tiime to work other jobs or go to school and make ends meet to cover all your expenses.
Be honest in your response, if representing Canada and a pro rugby caterer is not all it’s crackup up to be then say it!!! No Whining about coaching and not getting better.
These discussions are productive and useful if our goal is to grow the sport, develop more talent and be inclusive to all.
Permission to go back in time for a moment . You can learn from history !
I was the Head Coach of the 1999 BC Championship JBAA team.
We played 22 games in the BC Premier League .
The Bays were loaded with Canadian Internationals.
( Cardinal, Ross, Asselin, Barker, Stanley, Thiel, Robson, McCarthy etc)
There were more and a few future internationals as well.
I had coached Canada at the World Cup so was an experienced coach.
That team lost Twice to the PRIDE that year.
The Pride was coached by David Clark and Johnny Mac.
They built that team from young players from all provinces.
They were responsible for the teams results.
Right coaches know how to build a program !!
Rugby Canada has failed to find the right coaches many times
and now our National Men’s teams are level 3 in World Rugby.
We had and have World Class athletes players /coaches in Canada
HH Jono
GJ all good points. I believe it is important that we remember and learn from our history or we are doomed to repeat.
I can learn from your comments:
“The Bay were loaded with international”, My question is would that team be willing to play a club with a lot of imports? That team probably would because they wanted stronger competition to get even better. That is not true of current BCRU, they are limiting imports, clubs are scared of imports now.
“Young player all over the province” As far as I am aware, some schools that used to provide a lot of players no longer even have rugby programs in their school.
I appreciate these discussion because it is healthy.
My concern is that the current social economic and demographic environment is completely different from the past.
For example if I am the parents of a potential international player that has just spent several hundred thousand to send my son to private school (St George) and then to University, where the parents live in Vancouver and run successful business, where a house will cost a couple of millions, do you think the parent are keen for there kids future to toil for Canada????
I think your points are well taken and I applaud you and your peers for what you have done in the past but We have to address the current environment, which are much more complex.
We have to address:
1. Housing for players
2. Economics for the players, employment etc
3. Career guidance for the players
4. Parents concerns
5. Well being of the platter
6. Etc etc